Comments on: Why does it matter? (Women in Undergraduate Chemistry) http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/ A Chat and Waffles Chemistry Blog Fri, 16 May 2008 06:57:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: May Scientiae Carnival: Career paths, perspective, and changing self-image « A Cat Nap http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-804 May Scientiae Carnival: Career paths, perspective, and changing self-image « A Cat Nap Wed, 07 May 2008 21:50:50 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-804 [...] others deal with more subtle aspects of being a woman in science. Jokerine pointed me to this post by a current undergraduate in science, and as a fairly recent B.S. recipient myself, I can [...] [...] others deal with more subtle aspects of being a woman in science. Jokerine pointed me to this post by a current undergraduate in science, and as a fairly recent B.S. recipient myself, I can [...]

]]> By: Jake http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-786 Jake Thu, 01 May 2008 20:11:58 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-786 Hey, baby. Wanna go out sometime? Then we can get married while I bring home the bacon and you stay at home popping out babies! Just kidding. Hey, baby. Wanna go out sometime? Then we can get married while I bring home the bacon and you stay at home popping out babies!

Just kidding.

]]> By: Taitauwai http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-774 Taitauwai Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:40:20 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-774 Guess I am luckier (?) than most. Our ratio is 5:1. 5 girls to 1 boy. Yup. Most girls dressed up nicely, flowerly skirt, nice blouse, heels. I can't do it. Too difficult to work in fancy clothes. I am a T-shirt, Jeans, sportshoes girl. I am sorry you have a bad experience in the lab. Most of the guys here are very nice & helpful. Of course, there will be one or two who will act like a pig, we just ignore him. Afterall, there are more girls! Guess I am luckier (?) than most. Our ratio is 5:1. 5 girls to 1 boy. Yup. Most girls dressed up nicely, flowerly skirt, nice blouse, heels. I can’t do it. Too difficult to work in fancy clothes. I am a T-shirt, Jeans, sportshoes girl. I am sorry you have a bad experience in the lab. Most of the guys here are very nice & helpful. Of course, there will be one or two who will act like a pig, we just ignore him. Afterall, there are more girls!

]]> By: retread http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-762 retread Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:16:41 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-762 A friend of my wife's sent her the folllowing: Enjoy and don't be insulted. Apple Computers announced today that it has developed a computer chip that can store and play music in women's breast implants. The iBoob will cost between $499 and $599... This is considered to be a major breakthrough, because women are always complaining about amn staring at their breasts and not listening to them. Thanks to Apple, everyone is now happy! A friend of my wife’s sent her the folllowing: Enjoy and don’t be insulted.

Apple Computers announced today that it has developed a computer chip that can store and play music in women’s breast implants.
The iBoob will cost between $499 and $599…
This is considered to be a major breakthrough, because women are always complaining about amn staring at their breasts and not listening to them.
Thanks to Apple, everyone is now happy!

]]> By: mitch http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-756 mitch Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:21:57 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-756 I wish the problem was as clear cut as your comment implies. But, dealing with sexual harassment from superiors is a very thorny and treacherous position to find oneself in. I wish the problem was as clear cut as your comment implies. But, dealing with sexual harassment from superiors is a very thorny and treacherous position to find oneself in.

]]> By: maz http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-755 maz Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:34:32 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-755 Most of the female chemistry majors i've known seem to sport the same frumpy, just got out of bed look that most male chemistry majors do. One thing I have noticed, not sure why though, is that we all tend to try and look nicer when going to the lab. Maybe the pseudo-professionalism of the lab makes us feel the need to dress better. I even shave. Whatever. If you feel your getting treated differently, and you don't think it's fair, then don't subtly change your ways over 2 years to look like a sorry little emo kid. Get out there and call out what you see or what happens to you right away. Don't let people get away with it. Ruminating about it with people who generally agree with you isn't going to solve a damn thing. You have to be loud, and unafraid to fight over it. If it bothers you enough to complain to your friends or family, or if you mull over it alone days before your GRE, then don't tolerate it. You can't just let people walk on you. If you're afraid of a fight, then hurry up and get tough. The world isn't perfect, and you have to fight for what you believe. That's just the way it is, and that's the way it's always going to be. Most of the female chemistry majors i’ve known seem to sport the same frumpy, just got out of bed look that most male chemistry majors do. One thing I have noticed, not sure why though, is that we all tend to try and look nicer when going to the lab. Maybe the pseudo-professionalism of the lab makes us feel the need to dress better. I even shave. Whatever.

If you feel your getting treated differently, and you don’t think it’s fair, then don’t subtly change your ways over 2 years to look like a sorry little emo kid. Get out there and call out what you see or what happens to you right away. Don’t let people get away with it. Ruminating about it with people who generally agree with you isn’t going to solve a damn thing. You have to be loud, and unafraid to fight over it. If it bothers you enough to complain to your friends or family, or if you mull over it alone days before your GRE, then don’t tolerate it. You can’t just let people walk on you.

If you’re afraid of a fight, then hurry up and get tough. The world isn’t perfect, and you have to fight for what you believe. That’s just the way it is, and that’s the way it’s always going to be.

]]> By: Enahs http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-753 Enahs Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:35:45 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-753 At UALR, there are more women in undergraduate chemistry then men. Graduate is ~50:50. With regards to attire. It is typically silly to dress super nice and such when working in a chemistry, though. Where I work (UAMS) in a biochem lab, one of the girls in the lab next door is very attractive, but always dressed so nice and clean and "made-up". It is quite creepy, actually. How does someone working in a lab environment stay that well "made-up" and dressed nice and never seem to get dirty? That said, at school all the girls in undergraduate chemistry are typically much more well dressed then I would be for chemistry. Female graduate students tend to be less "fancy"; but they are also probably much poorer then out undergrads, heh. While I am a male, I have never seen or talked with a female student that felt she was being discriminated in anyway; thought I can also see why they would not talk about it. I am just super polite to everybody. And I learned a long time ago to stop staring and womens breasts talking to them. Who knew women have different colored eyes? At UALR, there are more women in undergraduate chemistry then men. Graduate is ~50:50.

With regards to attire.
It is typically silly to dress super nice and such when working in a chemistry, though. Where I work (UAMS) in a biochem lab, one of the girls in the lab next door is very attractive, but always dressed so nice and clean and “made-up”. It is quite creepy, actually. How does someone working in a lab environment stay that well “made-up” and dressed nice and never seem to get dirty?

That said, at school all the girls in undergraduate chemistry are typically much more well dressed then I would be for chemistry. Female graduate students tend to be less “fancy”; but they are also probably much poorer then out undergrads, heh.

While I am a male, I have never seen or talked with a female student that felt she was being discriminated in anyway; thought I can also see why they would not talk about it.

I am just super polite to everybody. And I learned a long time ago to stop staring and womens breasts talking to them. Who knew women have different colored eyes?

]]> By: psi*psi http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-751 psi*psi Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:23:54 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-751 Which is why you have to be selective. All-around bitchiness will get you nowhere, but as a last resort it's fairly effective. Which is why you have to be selective. All-around bitchiness will get you nowhere, but as a last resort it’s fairly effective.

]]> By: Mitch http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-750 Mitch Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:57:46 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-750 Being forceful and strong willed (<i>i.e.</i> bitch) will definitely burn some bridges, but it does tend to work well. Being forceful and strong willed (i.e. bitch) will definitely burn some bridges, but it does tend to work well.

]]> By: psi*psi http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/04/27/why-does-it-matter-women-in-undergraduate-chemistry/#comment-749 psi*psi Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:32:49 +0000 http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=222#comment-749 Apart from one sexist prof (who never targeted me directly but still made me angry), I've been fortunate enough to avoid any gender discrimination. At least 50% of the undergrads in my department are women, though. I guess I'm a little more lazy with my appearance year-round, though--doing synthetic chemistry will eventually beat into you that you can't wear anything you don't mind seeing tiny little holes in. (Also helps that I value sleep more than anything else.) I only bother dressing up/wearing makeup/doing anything with my hair when I have to present something. But I don't think I'd have had any problems with the guys at my school anyway. It's hard to be an asshole to the girl who corrects your ignorance right before the exam, I guess. If all else fails, remember: a lot of women are compulsively nice. This means people take advantage of them, and they don't get the respect they deserve. Learn how to be a bitch. It works wonders when nothing else does. Apart from one sexist prof (who never targeted me directly but still made me angry), I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid any gender discrimination. At least 50% of the undergrads in my department are women, though. I guess I’m a little more lazy with my appearance year-round, though–doing synthetic chemistry will eventually beat into you that you can’t wear anything you don’t mind seeing tiny little holes in. (Also helps that I value sleep more than anything else.) I only bother dressing up/wearing makeup/doing anything with my hair when I have to present something.
But I don’t think I’d have had any problems with the guys at my school anyway. It’s hard to be an asshole to the girl who corrects your ignorance right before the exam, I guess.
If all else fails, remember: a lot of women are compulsively nice. This means people take advantage of them, and they don’t get the respect they deserve. Learn how to be a bitch. It works wonders when nothing else does.

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