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	<title>Comments on: Pushing the Envelope</title>
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	<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/</link>
	<description>A Chat and Waffles Chemistry Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: retread</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1837</link>
		<dc:creator>retread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1837</guid>
		<description>I'm off to what a friend calls 'band camp for adults' for the next two weeks.  Most of the commenters on this blog appear to be on the front lines of  undergraduate teaching.  Hopefully you guys will produce some  comments about your own experiences with the devious, and more hopefully you will help weed out the morally and mentally challenged in your work with premeds.  

I'm sure the way such things are handled has changed (even more hopefully) for the better, but I have no idea what the current situation is.  The event described in the post of 7/15/08 occurred over 40 years ago, those in the post of 8/7/08 were much more recent (the crooked neurologist only lost his license a few years ago).   I'll respond when I get back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m off to what a friend calls &#8216;band camp for adults&#8217; for the next two weeks.  Most of the commenters on this blog appear to be on the front lines of  undergraduate teaching.  Hopefully you guys will produce some  comments about your own experiences with the devious, and more hopefully you will help weed out the morally and mentally challenged in your work with premeds.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the way such things are handled has changed (even more hopefully) for the better, but I have no idea what the current situation is.  The event described in the post of 7/15/08 occurred over 40 years ago, those in the post of 8/7/08 were much more recent (the crooked neurologist only lost his license a few years ago).   I&#8217;ll respond when I get back.</p>
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		<title>By: Retread</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1821</link>
		<dc:creator>Retread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1821</guid>
		<description>All too true, but here are a few examples of what I've seen in medical practice 

 #1  A drug addicted urologist who passed his urine tests (for a while) after he was initially caught by catheterizing his patients, obtaining their urine, then catheterizing himself and instilling their (presumably) drugfree urine into his bladder.  

#2 -- The Plaintiff's friend -- a neurologist who didn't have an examining table in his office and who examined people in their attorney's office.  

#3 The crooked neurologist, who, to make money, diagnosed hapless neurotics as having multiple sclerosis, plunked them in the hospital and gave them unnecessary treatment with high dose corticosteroids.  One of them developed bilateral aseptic necrosis of the hips as a result.  Multiple (billable) expensive tests (EEGs, Evoked responses, EMGs, NCVs) were performed on them -- it's called acute remunerative neurology.  Fortunately he has now lost his medical license -- for incompetence, but it most likely wasn't incompetence, it was fraud (as we all suspected but could not prove).

Where do you come in?  If you find such an individual throw them out of the course.  Would you want them taking care of your mother in a few years?  Also if someone says "If I don't pass organic, I won't get into medical school"  -- think to yourself -- "If you can't pass organic, you don't BELONG in medical school" and act accordingly.  It may not be easy, and I have no idea what the academic/legal environment is these days, but you'll be doing society a favor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All too true, but here are a few examples of what I&#8217;ve seen in medical practice </p>
<p> #1  A drug addicted urologist who passed his urine tests (for a while) after he was initially caught by catheterizing his patients, obtaining their urine, then catheterizing himself and instilling their (presumably) drugfree urine into his bladder.  </p>
<p>#2 &#8212; The Plaintiff&#8217;s friend &#8212; a neurologist who didn&#8217;t have an examining table in his office and who examined people in their attorney&#8217;s office.  </p>
<p>#3 The crooked neurologist, who, to make money, diagnosed hapless neurotics as having multiple sclerosis, plunked them in the hospital and gave them unnecessary treatment with high dose corticosteroids.  One of them developed bilateral aseptic necrosis of the hips as a result.  Multiple (billable) expensive tests (EEGs, Evoked responses, EMGs, NCVs) were performed on them &#8212; it&#8217;s called acute remunerative neurology.  Fortunately he has now lost his medical license &#8212; for incompetence, but it most likely wasn&#8217;t incompetence, it was fraud (as we all suspected but could not prove).</p>
<p>Where do you come in?  If you find such an individual throw them out of the course.  Would you want them taking care of your mother in a few years?  Also if someone says &#8220;If I don&#8217;t pass organic, I won&#8217;t get into medical school&#8221;  &#8212; think to yourself &#8212; &#8220;If you can&#8217;t pass organic, you don&#8217;t BELONG in medical school&#8221; and act accordingly.  It may not be easy, and I have no idea what the academic/legal environment is these days, but you&#8217;ll be doing society a favor.</p>
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		<title>By: The Chemist (AKA ChiralDecay)</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1605</link>
		<dc:creator>The Chemist (AKA ChiralDecay)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1605</guid>
		<description>Wow.

Being an undergrad still, I can honestly say I haven't done any of that. I get good grades in lab and lecture, but to be honest, I see very little linking the two. 

My fellow classmates complain that it's the most frequent source of frustration and mistakes. More often than not I'm helping the person next to me and telling them, "Forget the lecture, this is lab."

I don't know, maybe it's just my university, or maybe I'm failing to conceptualize the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.</p>
<p>Being an undergrad still, I can honestly say I haven&#8217;t done any of that. I get good grades in lab and lecture, but to be honest, I see very little linking the two. </p>
<p>My fellow classmates complain that it&#8217;s the most frequent source of frustration and mistakes. More often than not I&#8217;m helping the person next to me and telling them, &#8220;Forget the lecture, this is lab.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know, maybe it&#8217;s just my university, or maybe I&#8217;m failing to conceptualize the link.</p>
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		<title>By: retread</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1603</link>
		<dc:creator>retread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1603</guid>
		<description>Yes, but in the case of the benzoin condensation, the twit had actually created matter (see above).  About as good as the evidence for cheating ever gets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but in the case of the benzoin condensation, the twit had actually created matter (see above).  About as good as the evidence for cheating ever gets.</p>
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		<title>By: Grace</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1602</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1602</guid>
		<description>while i do hate stupid questions (and have gotten quite a few over the course of my TA-ships) i've always lived with the mantra that 'a stupid question is easier to deal with than a stupid mistake.'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>while i do hate stupid questions (and have gotten quite a few over the course of my TA-ships) i&#8217;ve always lived with the mantra that &#8216;a stupid question is easier to deal with than a stupid mistake.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Noel</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1600</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1600</guid>
		<description>During my first semester of organic chemistry for chem majors, someone decided that it was a good idea to buy/sell lab reports on the LiveJournal community. Little did she know that there are a ton of grad students on the intertubes, too.

My professor found out and was furious. We ended up handwriting our reports for the rest of the semester. Graphs, tables, everything. I was so upset that I actually spent a whole night and figured out her identity. Luckily, it's not someone that I know of.

Let me just explain that, the lab this student was trying to cheat on was titled "solubility investigation." Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During my first semester of organic chemistry for chem majors, someone decided that it was a good idea to buy/sell lab reports on the LiveJournal community. Little did she know that there are a ton of grad students on the intertubes, too.</p>
<p>My professor found out and was furious. We ended up handwriting our reports for the rest of the semester. Graphs, tables, everything. I was so upset that I actually spent a whole night and figured out her identity. Luckily, it&#8217;s not someone that I know of.</p>
<p>Let me just explain that, the lab this student was trying to cheat on was titled &#8220;solubility investigation.&#8221; Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1599</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1599</guid>
		<description>There are &lt;i&gt;certain&lt;/i&gt; Universities that seemingly require an act of Congress to stick a plagerism/honor code offense, and the result is most often akin to a slap on the wrist (taking a 0% on the assignment).  Having a sitdown with the Dean is troubling, inconvenient and often pointless because after the meeting, he/she will meet with the student and as, "did you cheat."  When the student says, "no," without conclusive evidence (amounting to video surveilance), the issue is thrown out.

Most profs are afraid of approaching students because they don't want a lawsuit for slander or libel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are <i>certain</i> Universities that seemingly require an act of Congress to stick a plagerism/honor code offense, and the result is most often akin to a slap on the wrist (taking a 0% on the assignment).  Having a sitdown with the Dean is troubling, inconvenient and often pointless because after the meeting, he/she will meet with the student and as, &#8220;did you cheat.&#8221;  When the student says, &#8220;no,&#8221; without conclusive evidence (amounting to video surveilance), the issue is thrown out.</p>
<p>Most profs are afraid of approaching students because they don&#8217;t want a lawsuit for slander or libel.</p>
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		<title>By: retread</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1597</link>
		<dc:creator>retread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1597</guid>
		<description>The following actually happened.  Just before leaving grad school and entering med school I made some money as a TA in a 6 (or 8) week summer course in organic chemistry cramming a year's worth into that tiny space (and into fairly tiny brains given what was taking the course).  Some had previously flunked organic, others needed to pass it to get into medical school.  

One loathsome twerp had actually been accepted and was to matriculate in the fall (like me) but only if he passed the course.  You know the type, every point taken off was fought over, etc. etc. I was pretty sure he was also cheating in the lab.  The denouement came with the benzoin condensation. We were shooting for a 70% yield, and sure enough starting with 5 grams of benzaldehyde he got 7.5 grams of benzoin. 

I wanted him thrown out of the course.  He was not.  God only knows what damage he caused as an M. D.   As an older and wiser Doc once said to me -- medicine is a licence to steal -- the only protection the public has is a doctor who is a little too busy, so that all he does is what he should do, not what he can do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following actually happened.  Just before leaving grad school and entering med school I made some money as a TA in a 6 (or <img src='http://www.chemistry-blog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> week summer course in organic chemistry cramming a year&#8217;s worth into that tiny space (and into fairly tiny brains given what was taking the course).  Some had previously flunked organic, others needed to pass it to get into medical school.  </p>
<p>One loathsome twerp had actually been accepted and was to matriculate in the fall (like me) but only if he passed the course.  You know the type, every point taken off was fought over, etc. etc. I was pretty sure he was also cheating in the lab.  The denouement came with the benzoin condensation. We were shooting for a 70% yield, and sure enough starting with 5 grams of benzaldehyde he got 7.5 grams of benzoin. </p>
<p>I wanted him thrown out of the course.  He was not.  God only knows what damage he caused as an M. D.   As an older and wiser Doc once said to me &#8212; medicine is a licence to steal &#8212; the only protection the public has is a doctor who is a little too busy, so that all he does is what he should do, not what he can do.</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1596</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1596</guid>
		<description>Priceless!  

I can see it now:
S: "My hand is red and burning."
TA: "That's God telling you to drop the course."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priceless!  </p>
<p>I can see it now:<br />
S: &#8220;My hand is red and burning.&#8221;<br />
TA: &#8220;That&#8217;s God telling you to drop the course.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2008/07/14/pushing-the-envelope/#comment-1595</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=282#comment-1595</guid>
		<description>I double post between Chemistry Blog and my other, personal blog.  This gem was placed as a comment from my personal blog (courtesy of Javaslinger):

"And this is why I love being a TA. Endless opportunities to hone my sarcasm to a razors edge... :)"

After a lengthy lecture about safety using conc. sulfuric acid, I had a girl walk across the room with a Pasteur pipette full of it, stop, talk to her friend, spill a few drops on her sneaker, than asked me, "is it bad if I dropped acid on my shoe."  

Oh, and chemical engineers are notorious for putting hot sand in the trash with their acetone-soaked paper towels.  A friend of mine had a fire start in his teaching lab that way.  
S: "What should I do?"
TA: "Answer this question: what's your major?"
S: "Chem E."
TA: "Okay, carry on."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I double post between Chemistry Blog and my other, personal blog.  This gem was placed as a comment from my personal blog (courtesy of Javaslinger):</p>
<p>&#8220;And this is why I love being a TA. Endless opportunities to hone my sarcasm to a razors edge&#8230; :)&#8221;</p>
<p>After a lengthy lecture about safety using conc. sulfuric acid, I had a girl walk across the room with a Pasteur pipette full of it, stop, talk to her friend, spill a few drops on her sneaker, than asked me, &#8220;is it bad if I dropped acid on my shoe.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Oh, and chemical engineers are notorious for putting hot sand in the trash with their acetone-soaked paper towels.  A friend of mine had a fire start in his teaching lab that way.<br />
S: &#8220;What should I do?&#8221;<br />
TA: &#8220;Answer this question: what&#8217;s your major?&#8221;<br />
S: &#8220;Chem E.&#8221;<br />
TA: &#8220;Okay, carry on.&#8221;</p>
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