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	<title>Comments on: Out and about</title>
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		<title>By: syzygy</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-9595</link>
		<dc:creator>syzygy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 05:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-9595</guid>
		<description>I was talking to an lgbt lab mate of mine (I am queer as well) about the presence (or lack thereof) of gay people in chemistry the other day. He seemed to think there were very few, but I responded I knew og several, including several very renowned chemists.

I will however agree with the initial author&#039;s sentiment that there is a certain degree of invisibility for lgbt people. I don&#039;t necessarily think this is a bad thing. I have wondered about the propriety of mentioned my sexual orientation with regard to grant and fellowship applications (@Excimer). I don&#039;t think as a white male that a minority status would be taken seriously (except of course by a lgbt advocacy group like the Point Foundation). Those fellowships/scholarships that are available seemed geared towards people involved more with activism and political movements than the natural sciences. As such, I wonder I am part of their intended demographic when I have considered applying.

In any case, I think the natural sciences are for the most part lgbt friendly based on my personal experience. Sexual orientation should in theory be a non-issue, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking to an lgbt lab mate of mine (I am queer as well) about the presence (or lack thereof) of gay people in chemistry the other day. He seemed to think there were very few, but I responded I knew og several, including several very renowned chemists.</p>
<p>I will however agree with the initial author&#8217;s sentiment that there is a certain degree of invisibility for lgbt people. I don&#8217;t necessarily think this is a bad thing. I have wondered about the propriety of mentioned my sexual orientation with regard to grant and fellowship applications (@Excimer). I don&#8217;t think as a white male that a minority status would be taken seriously (except of course by a lgbt advocacy group like the Point Foundation). Those fellowships/scholarships that are available seemed geared towards people involved more with activism and political movements than the natural sciences. As such, I wonder I am part of their intended demographic when I have considered applying.</p>
<p>In any case, I think the natural sciences are for the most part lgbt friendly based on my personal experience. Sexual orientation should in theory be a non-issue, right?</p>
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		<title>By: ETB</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-9103</link>
		<dc:creator>ETB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-9103</guid>
		<description>&quot;But at what price? To not be true to myself in the lab setting and to constantly worry in the back of my mind wondering who might know or suspect and what would they do about this information?&quot;

Did you honestly think anyone in your lab (or your fellow peers) would care enough to out you to a fellowship committee? In fact, do you think the committee would even care if you were gay, especially if they already awarded you based on your scientific and academic merits?

Your attempt to &quot;re-closet&quot; yourself after arriving at graduate school was a life poor decision, and the dishonesty eventually cost you not only your position here, but it tainted your reputation amongst your former peers.

I earnestly hope you make better decisions in the future, especially when being honest with your friends, coworkers, and yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But at what price? To not be true to myself in the lab setting and to constantly worry in the back of my mind wondering who might know or suspect and what would they do about this information?&#8221;</p>
<p>Did you honestly think anyone in your lab (or your fellow peers) would care enough to out you to a fellowship committee? In fact, do you think the committee would even care if you were gay, especially if they already awarded you based on your scientific and academic merits?</p>
<p>Your attempt to &#8220;re-closet&#8221; yourself after arriving at graduate school was a life poor decision, and the dishonesty eventually cost you not only your position here, but it tainted your reputation amongst your former peers.</p>
<p>I earnestly hope you make better decisions in the future, especially when being honest with your friends, coworkers, and yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8873</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8873</guid>
		<description>Hi all, I just found this post and hope some will find it encourageing to hear that I knew openly an openly gay graduate student who, to the best of my knowledge did not feel as if he was discriminated against. I know it took him a while to feel comfortable telling people, we all suspected before he told us. Maybe the fact that this happened in good old liberal Mass. helped. I hope this helps. 
B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all, I just found this post and hope some will find it encourageing to hear that I knew openly an openly gay graduate student who, to the best of my knowledge did not feel as if he was discriminated against. I know it took him a while to feel comfortable telling people, we all suspected before he told us. Maybe the fact that this happened in good old liberal Mass. helped. I hope this helps.<br />
B</p>
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		<title>By: William Penrose</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8862</link>
		<dc:creator>William Penrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8862</guid>
		<description>Network in the small business community. Universities, large research institutes, and large companies tend to converge on a type. Small companies tend to be more flexible and iconoclastic, and it&#039;s amazing how many little companies are flourishing in this crappy economy. I&#039;m retired now, but I spent 17 years working for small companies, and they were the most productive of my life. My last job before retiring was back in academia, and I found it had become a barren and unrewarding wasteland. 

I&#039;ve known several successful gay scientists, but in all cases, they never made a big deal of their orientation, neither denying it or rubbing it in others&#039; faces. Come to think of it, none were in academia. All were in business or in government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Network in the small business community. Universities, large research institutes, and large companies tend to converge on a type. Small companies tend to be more flexible and iconoclastic, and it&#8217;s amazing how many little companies are flourishing in this crappy economy. I&#8217;m retired now, but I spent 17 years working for small companies, and they were the most productive of my life. My last job before retiring was back in academia, and I found it had become a barren and unrewarding wasteland. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known several successful gay scientists, but in all cases, they never made a big deal of their orientation, neither denying it or rubbing it in others&#8217; faces. Come to think of it, none were in academia. All were in business or in government.</p>
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		<title>By: Carbon-Based Curiosities &#187; Blog Archive &#187; come out, come out, wherever you are</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8845</link>
		<dc:creator>Carbon-Based Curiosities &#187; Blog Archive &#187; come out, come out, wherever you are</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8845</guid>
		<description>[...] Lady Gaga post attracted a bit of outrage&#8211;wrongfully so, we believe.  Here at CBC, we like to think our readers know better than to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lady Gaga post attracted a bit of outrage&#8211;wrongfully so, we believe.  Here at CBC, we like to think our readers know better than to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: psi*psi</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8832</link>
		<dc:creator>psi*psi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8832</guid>
		<description>@Steve: Make GLBT-friendly friends within chemistry.  There are departments and research groups where you can be accepted for who you are--I&#039;m in one.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve: Make GLBT-friendly friends within chemistry.  There are departments and research groups where you can be accepted for who you are&#8211;I&#8217;m in one.  <img src='http://www.chemistry-blog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mitch</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8830</link>
		<dc:creator>mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8830</guid>
		<description>As none of us are poor black-hispanic single mothers I doubt we will ever know what it means to truly be a minority. I can see how Excimer&#039;s post and the adjoining commenters seem crass and insensitive, but only if you don&#039;t give them the benefit of the doubt. 

Good luck with your future endeavors away from Chemistry. I&#039;m considering a similar path but for different reasons...

Mitch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As none of us are poor black-hispanic single mothers I doubt we will ever know what it means to truly be a minority. I can see how Excimer&#8217;s post and the adjoining commenters seem crass and insensitive, but only if you don&#8217;t give them the benefit of the doubt. </p>
<p>Good luck with your future endeavors away from Chemistry. I&#8217;m considering a similar path but for different reasons&#8230;</p>
<p>Mitch</p>
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		<title>By: boyie</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8829</link>
		<dc:creator>boyie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8829</guid>
		<description>Wah. I spoke with Jes about it. My face is red. Sorry. Yes, I may be projecting, but I just think me seeing that came at a bad time and I raged at the heterohegemony. But you don&#039;t know me. You don&#039;t know what happened, so please do not tell me to lighten the fuck up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wah. I spoke with Jes about it. My face is red. Sorry. Yes, I may be projecting, but I just think me seeing that came at a bad time and I raged at the heterohegemony. But you don&#8217;t know me. You don&#8217;t know what happened, so please do not tell me to lighten the fuck up.</p>
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		<title>By: excimer</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8828</link>
		<dc:creator>excimer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8828</guid>
		<description>2/3 of the CBC bloggers are GLBT. As teh ghey who wrote the Lady Gaga post which sparked the (in my opinion) hilarious comments which ensued your obvious wrath, I feel inclined to give my thoughts on your supposed woes, which I can fairly sum up with the following:

Lighten. the fuck. &lt;em&gt;up.&lt;/em&gt;

First, if you&#039;re not out already, the science community is a horrible place to do it. The supposed conservativism, or &quot;heterohegemony&quot; as you so disingenuously call it, of chemistry faculty is not the reason why. Science is Asperger&#039;s central, full of people who are indifferent to emotion and unable to deal with irrational changes. Science draws these people. Coming out is a rather emotionally taxing process, and the people who make up the scientific establishment generally lack the empathy needed to help you through the process. It is much easier to be a GLBT chemist if they already are able to deal with one&#039;s own sexuality before starting their post-bac career. Go find a support group- most Unis have the necessary resources. You don&#039;t do that shit at work. It doesn&#039;t matter if you&#039;re a scientist or not. In my experience, it&#039;s better to talk to people who aren&#039;t scientists about these things anyway.

Second, you&#039;re projecting. You do not speak for me. Now I&#039;m sorry if you had a shitty experience with a conservative advisor and &quot;drama,&quot; but given the egregious lack of detail in your story, I can only imagine what happened. Now, I&#039;ve had to deal with gay-related bullshit every so often. This happens when you&#039;ve spent your entire collegiate life in conservative public institutions. My approach to it is simply &quot;fuck you.&quot; It&#039;s amazing what happens when you simply confront people about their raging intolerance. It&#039;s pretty clear you&#039;re too passive for this approach. Too bad. It would have helped. Chemists need things spelled out for them.

Third, I DID mention my gay-ness in my NSF-GFRP application, how it allowed me to understand what it was like to be a minority in science, and how I wanted to act as a mentor for other GLBT students in science so they knew how best to approach this in the scientific community, as I believe I have with success. The responses I got for the section made it clear that the NSF had no interest in promoting GLBT scientists. 

Honestly, this is the first time I have ever heard of someone GLBT being discriminated against in a chemistry lab by their advisor. Do not think you are in the majority, though... nor the minority. There are people out there who want to know, who give a shit about things like this. That it forced you out of science is very unfortunate. If you want to talk, you have my email. Don&#039;t hesitate. Ψ*Ψ is writing a post about this now. There will be dialogue. Your voice will be heard, but it will also be challenged.

But leave my commenters alone. Their intentions are good. And everyone should get a good laugh out of a backside attack joke now and then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2/3 of the CBC bloggers are GLBT. As teh ghey who wrote the Lady Gaga post which sparked the (in my opinion) hilarious comments which ensued your obvious wrath, I feel inclined to give my thoughts on your supposed woes, which I can fairly sum up with the following:</p>
<p>Lighten. the fuck. <em>up.</em></p>
<p>First, if you&#8217;re not out already, the science community is a horrible place to do it. The supposed conservativism, or &#8220;heterohegemony&#8221; as you so disingenuously call it, of chemistry faculty is not the reason why. Science is Asperger&#8217;s central, full of people who are indifferent to emotion and unable to deal with irrational changes. Science draws these people. Coming out is a rather emotionally taxing process, and the people who make up the scientific establishment generally lack the empathy needed to help you through the process. It is much easier to be a GLBT chemist if they already are able to deal with one&#8217;s own sexuality before starting their post-bac career. Go find a support group- most Unis have the necessary resources. You don&#8217;t do that shit at work. It doesn&#8217;t matter if you&#8217;re a scientist or not. In my experience, it&#8217;s better to talk to people who aren&#8217;t scientists about these things anyway.</p>
<p>Second, you&#8217;re projecting. You do not speak for me. Now I&#8217;m sorry if you had a shitty experience with a conservative advisor and &#8220;drama,&#8221; but given the egregious lack of detail in your story, I can only imagine what happened. Now, I&#8217;ve had to deal with gay-related bullshit every so often. This happens when you&#8217;ve spent your entire collegiate life in conservative public institutions. My approach to it is simply &#8220;fuck you.&#8221; It&#8217;s amazing what happens when you simply confront people about their raging intolerance. It&#8217;s pretty clear you&#8217;re too passive for this approach. Too bad. It would have helped. Chemists need things spelled out for them.</p>
<p>Third, I DID mention my gay-ness in my NSF-GFRP application, how it allowed me to understand what it was like to be a minority in science, and how I wanted to act as a mentor for other GLBT students in science so they knew how best to approach this in the scientific community, as I believe I have with success. The responses I got for the section made it clear that the NSF had no interest in promoting GLBT scientists. </p>
<p>Honestly, this is the first time I have ever heard of someone GLBT being discriminated against in a chemistry lab by their advisor. Do not think you are in the majority, though&#8230; nor the minority. There are people out there who want to know, who give a shit about things like this. That it forced you out of science is very unfortunate. If you want to talk, you have my email. Don&#8217;t hesitate. Ψ*Ψ is writing a post about this now. There will be dialogue. Your voice will be heard, but it will also be challenged.</p>
<p>But leave my commenters alone. Their intentions are good. And everyone should get a good laugh out of a backside attack joke now and then.</p>
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		<title>By: boyie</title>
		<link>http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2009/11/24/out-and-about/comment-page-1/#comment-8824</link>
		<dc:creator>boyie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemistry-blog.com/?p=3234#comment-8824</guid>
		<description>It truly is sad. Thanks for the support Noel, but I sincerely hope that one day things will change. There is no fellowship question that relates to GLBT, but there is one that you may be aware of asking about how you have broader impacts. I thought being gay and out would be a broader impact, but I was very much told to not put it down, so I didn&#039;t. 

Either way, I feel for you Steve. If you have any questions, feel free to email me and I will try to answer them as best as I can. G&#039;luck and keepon truckin!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It truly is sad. Thanks for the support Noel, but I sincerely hope that one day things will change. There is no fellowship question that relates to GLBT, but there is one that you may be aware of asking about how you have broader impacts. I thought being gay and out would be a broader impact, but I was very much told to not put it down, so I didn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Either way, I feel for you Steve. If you have any questions, feel free to email me and I will try to answer them as best as I can. G&#8217;luck and keepon truckin!</p>
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